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作者 太多只会SSH的白痴了.....国内培养出那么多代码民工何用？！
cxp108





发贴: 363
于 2010-06-30 10:25 user profilesend a private message to usersend email to cxp108search all posts byselect and copy to clipboard. ie only, sorry for netscape users:-)add this post to my favorite list
面试的人清一色写SSH，但全部TMD连容器都不会选....我现在才知道3年经验的
人，不知道什么时候用HashMap什么时候用ArrayList的多得去了...


• IBM Rational Software Architect V8.5
作者 Re:太多只会SSH的白痴了.....国内培养出那么多代码民工何用？！ [Re:cxp108]
wes109

以梦为马

CJSDN高级会员


发贴: 857
于 2010-06-30 14:00 user profilesend a private message to usersearch all posts byselect and copy to clipboard. ie only, sorry for netscape users:-)add this post to my favorite list
楼主，你说这些我都懂，月薪30k我马上去报道！


作者 Re:太多只会SSH的白痴了.....国内培养出那么多代码民工何用？！ [Re:wes109]
cxp108





发贴: 363
于 2010-06-30 18:53 user profilesend a private message to usersend email to cxp108search all posts byselect and copy to clipboard. ie only, sorry for netscape users:-)add this post to my favorite list
wes109 wrote:
楼主，你说这些我都懂，月薪30k我马上去报道！

难道我要求高了？

懂这个可以有30k那我半价给你打工


• 庆祝CJSDN成立10周年
作者 Re:太多只会SSH的白痴了.....国内培养出那么多代码民工何用？！ [Re:cxp108]
robin

超级水鬼



发贴: 128
于 2010-06-30 23:43 user profilesend a private message to usersearch all posts byselect and copy to clipboard. ie only, sorry for netscape users:-)add this post to my favorite list
cxp108 wrote:
难道我要求高了？

懂这个可以有30k那我半价给你打工

他们大多数只知道用某个东东，但是他们不知道为啥要用这个东东。
我在想如果他们自己写server会是什么场景。
他们许多人连CGI是干啥的都不晓得。………………虽然偶不再写代码也不做设计了。但是本源的东东了解一下还是非常有必要的。


• JSR 371——Java EE 8新的MVC框架
作者 Re:太多只会SSH的白痴了.....国内培养出那么多代码民工何用？！ [Re:robin]
cxp108





发贴: 363
于 2010-07-01 09:56 user profilesend a private message to usersend email to cxp108search all posts byselect and copy to clipboard. ie only, sorry for netscape users:-)add this post to my favorite list
robin wrote:
他们大多数只知道用某个东东，但是他们不知道为啥要用这个东东。
我在想如果他们自己写server会是什么场景。
他们许多人连CGI是干啥的都不晓得。………………虽然偶不再写代码也不做设计了。但是本源的东东了解一下还是非常有必要的。

对！其实刚入行只懂how不懂why，很正常，但时间一长了，还是那样就杯具了，
我之所以问容器的问题是因为一般有写稍复杂的程序的人，都会涉及，很多人写
了3年的SSH，还没用过HashMap.....动不动就遍历ArrayList来查找某个元素。
如果是个案，不足为奇，但却是普遍现象.....


• JSR 371——Java EE 8新的MVC框架
作者 Re:太多只会SSH的白痴了.....国内培养出那么多代码民工何用？！ [Re:cxp108]
haibo



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发贴: 322
于 2010-07-01 14:24 user profilesend a private message to usersearch all posts byselect and copy to clipboard. ie only, sorry for netscape users:-)add this post to my favorite list
我不管用什么cgi,/ssh，还是用server,懂不懂设计，，我只想项目赶快完工，拍平客户，，收钱，，然后当大爷，，让客户求我给他改需求，，


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作者 Re:太多只会SSH的白痴了.....国内培养出那么多代码民工何用？！ [Re:wes109]
haibo



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发贴: 322
于 2010-07-01 14:27 user profilesend a private message to usersearch all posts byselect and copy to clipboard. ie only, sorry for netscape users:-)add this post to my favorite list
wes109 wrote:
楼主，你说这些我都懂，月薪30k我马上去报道！

30k，丫以为钱是风刮来的？做vpn也没有像你这么黑的啊，SuN034


• 自己设计的一个java小管理程序
作者 Re:太多只会SSH的白痴了.....国内培养出那么多代码民工何用？！ [Re:haibo]
wes109

以梦为马

CJSDN高级会员


发贴: 857
于 2010-07-01 15:33 user profilesend a private message to usersearch all posts byselect and copy to clipboard. ie only, sorry for netscape users:-)add this post to my favorite list
haibo wrote:
30k，丫以为钱是风刮来的？做vpn也没有像你这么黑的啊，SuN034


没见过世面。。。

对于注册了N个账号，轮着免费用，就是不想花钱，上来就狂拉流量的这种，封号是必须的！那流量都是美金呀！

wes109 edited on 2010-07-01 16:24

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作者 Re:太多只会SSH的白痴了.....国内培养出那么多代码民工何用？！ [Re:cxp108]
cxp108





发贴: 363
于 2010-07-05 18:17 user profilesend a private message to usersend email to cxp108search all posts byselect and copy to clipboard. ie only, sorry for netscape users:-)add this post to my favorite list
找到一个比我更不满的.....

http://blog.zhaojie.me/2010/04/why-i-say-no-to-aptech.html


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作者 Re:太多只会SSH的白痴了.....国内培养出那么多代码民工何用？！ [Re:cxp108]
wes109

以梦为马

CJSDN高级会员


发贴: 857
于 2010-07-06 15:28 user profilesend a private message to usersearch all posts byselect and copy to clipboard. ie only, sorry for netscape users:-)add this post to my favorite list
这种培训就是一个愿打一个愿挨，你改变不了

如果站在招到合适人的角度，建议你直接开8k以上薪水，绝大部分这种连投简历的勇气都没有啦

如果就给个4～5k，那你就慢慢忍受吧。时间一久，变成享受，也未可知。。。


• JCheckBox array 问题
作者 Re:太多只会SSH的白痴了.....国内培养出那么多代码民工何用？！ [Re:cxp108]
cxp108





发贴: 363
于 2010-07-07 13:55 user profilesend a private message to usersend email to cxp108search all posts byselect and copy to clipboard. ie only, sorry for netscape users:-)add this post to my favorite list
上头的价值观里，这些东西是做程序员的基本要求......我还是认同他的看法的。
至于几k各地行情不同，各个领导对程序员水平的认定基准也不同...领过几k的人就敢
投几k...


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作者 Re:太多只会SSH的白痴了.....国内培养出那么多代码民工何用？！ [Re:cxp108]
JiafanZhou



版主


发贴: 736
于 2010-07-07 19:34 user profilesend a private message to usersend email to JiafanZhousearch all posts byselect and copy to clipboard. ie only, sorry for netscape users:-)add this post to my favorite list
> 但全部TMD连容器都不会选....我现在才知道3年经验的

In my opinion, a good software architect or senior engineer needs to know which JEE container to use in the project. Not only that, they need to compare the difference between various containers, knowing the cons and pros of each and most importantly making a decision to choose one and document them by writing them down.

3 years experience is considered a junior engineer in my opinion, so don't be serious on this. haha

> 不知道什么时候用HashMap什么时候用ArrayList的多得去了.
wow...... How can somebody know to solve a complex maths problem without knowing numbers 1 2 and 3? I don't understand this. HashMap and ArrayList are the most important data structure in computer programming. (not only in Java). Smile

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bike. Then I realized that The Lord doesn't work that way, so I stole one and asked him to forgive me.
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作者 Re:太多只会SSH的白痴了.....国内培养出那么多代码民工何用？！ [Re:JiafanZhou]
cxp108





发贴: 363
于 2010-07-08 10:50 user profilesend a private message to usersend email to cxp108search all posts byselect and copy to clipboard. ie only, sorry for netscape users:-)add this post to my favorite list
JiafanZhou wrote:
> 但全部TMD连容器都不会选....我现在才知道3年经验的

In my opinion, a good software architect or senior engineer needs to know which JEE container to use in the project. Not only that, they need to compare the difference between various containers, knowing the cons and pros of each and most importantly making a decision to choose one and document them by writing them down.

3 years experience is considered a junior engineer in my opinion, so don't be serious on this. haha

> 不知道什么时候用HashMap什么时候用ArrayList的多得去了.
wow...... How can somebody know to solve a complex maths problem without knowing numbers 1 2 and 3? I don't understand this. HashMap and ArrayList are the most important data structure in computer programming. (not only in Java). Smile

我说的容器指的是java.util.下的容器即Collection，一般好像都叫集合或数据结构的。哪敢指望他们懂得怎么选择J2EE Application Server......
我面试问过的一个问题：HashMap和ArrayList遍历起来哪个快？
得到的答案排名如下：
1、HashMap (60%)
2、没用过HashMap(30%)
3、差不多(5%)
4、ArrayList(5%)接着问为什么？答：因为数组存取是最快的....我无语了


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作者 Re:太多只会SSH的白痴了.....国内培养出那么多代码民工何用？！ [Re:JiafanZhou]
ditty

负资产小资

CJSDN高级会员


发贴: 1038
于 2010-07-08 10:52 user profilesend a private message to usersend email to dittysearch all posts byselect and copy to clipboard. ie only, sorry for netscape users:-)add this post to my favorite list
ssh？也许是开发经验和你所需的技术领域不同吧？
对于一个写了3年shell的人，你问他HashMap和ArrayList的区别，不知道也正常。

Big Smile

内忧外患的时代，洗心革面，阿咪豆腐~
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作者 Re:太多只会SSH的白痴了.....国内培养出那么多代码民工何用？！ [Re:cxp108]
wes109

以梦为马

CJSDN高级会员


发贴: 857
于 2010-07-08 11:36 user profilesend a private message to usersearch all posts byselect and copy to clipboard. ie only, sorry for netscape users:-)add this post to my favorite list
cxp108 wrote:
我说的容器指的是java.util.下的容器即Collection，一般好像都叫集合或数据结构的。哪敢指望他们懂得怎么选择J2EE Application Server......
我面试问过的一个问题：HashMap和ArrayList遍历起来哪个快？
得到的答案排名如下：
1、HashMap (60%)
2、没用过HashMap(30%)
3、差不多(5%)
4、ArrayList(5%)接着问为什么？答：因为数组存取是最快的....我无语了


我觉得你的问题很无聊！


• JVM参数调优，无停滞实践
作者 Re:太多只会SSH的白痴了.....国内培养出那么多代码民工何用？！ [Re:ditty]
cxp108





发贴: 363
于 2010-07-08 13:07 user profilesend a private message to usersend email to cxp108search all posts byselect and copy to clipboard. ie only, sorry for netscape users:-)add this post to my favorite list
ditty wrote:
ssh？也许是开发经验和你所需的技术领域不同吧？
对于一个写了3年shell的人，你问他HashMap和ArrayList的区别，不知道也正常。

Big Smile

不是Shell......Spring Structs Hibernate SSH


• JVM参数调优，无停滞实践
作者 Re:太多只会SSH的白痴了.....国内培养出那么多代码民工何用？！ [Re:wes109]
cxp108





发贴: 363
于 2010-07-08 13:26 user profilesend a private message to usersend email to cxp108search all posts byselect and copy to clipboard. ie only, sorry for netscape users:-)add this post to my favorite list
wes109 wrote:
我觉得你的问题很无聊！

我不知道你的意思是我的问题太基本而无聊？还是我没事找事问这些？
不管我觉得数据结构是非常基本的，只要写过稍微复杂一点的程序就会用到
集合的选择问题，保存对象的引用并在适当的时候遍历这些对象，这是我们
很常见的程序要求，连这个集合都不会选那真的很杯具.....

我发的这帖子的本意是有一大部分J2EE的程序员只知道SSH怎么配置，然后整天
写增删改查不思进取，人都变傻掉了。即使是他们理解的SSH也是很粗浅的，人
云亦云，流行就用，最明显的一个现象是很多人都把Spring 做数据库事务管理工
具用，其他用途统统不知，并不知道为什么用Spring，用Spring可以带来什么好处。

更有甚者离开SSH或J2EE容器就不会写代码的。

cxp108 edited on 2010-07-08 13:29

• IBM Rational Software Architect V8.5
作者 Re:太多只会SSH的白痴了.....国内培养出那么多代码民工何用？！ [Re:cxp108]
JiafanZhou



版主


发贴: 736
于 2010-07-08 17:52 user profilesend a private message to usersend email to JiafanZhousearch all posts byselect and copy to clipboard. ie only, sorry for netscape users:-)add this post to my favorite list
cxp 108, sorry for my misunderstanding your term. If you refer to the Collections, then I will be probably in the same position as how you are so disgruntled by these interviewees who have a bare understanding of the Collections. And if I would use one word to describe Java Collections, it will be *FOUNDATIONS*. Java gives the package name as "java.util" to include Collections and they probably exist from the first version of Java. Every Java book describes ArrayList and HashMap in details, so there will be no excuse if someone is not familiar with them. Except for those shell developers who do not really need a data structure to store data Smile

Since this is a technical forum, let's talk some technical aspect of HashMap and ArrayList. You can very easily see my "geek" personality from this thread. Smile

Your question translated into English might look like this: "Between ArrayList and HashMap, which data structure is faster to iterate over all the elements?" Correct me if I am wrong, but I also feel that it is a strange question to be asked in an interview. Why? ArrayList is an implementation of List which is generally used as a dynamic array to store in a pre-determined order. HashMap is an implementation of Map which we need to efficiently retrieve items by some sort of look-ups, that is retrieving something based on the key. (most use case are caches in light of my own experience). In other words, we use Map as an indexing data structure and use List as we would usually use fixed arrays. So I will not really compare their performance in respect of the iterations but the usage of these two widely used data structure in lieu.

To answer your question, which one is faster to iterate over all elements? I believe the answer is the same. I always think of ArrayList as a number of boxes lined up against the wall and numbered from 1 to N. Whereas thinking of a HashMap as a room of boxes assigned randomly with a key-value with a keeper at the door. Ask the door keeper for the box labelled "xyz" (key) and he will go and find the box and returns you the content (value). But if iterating over all the elements in ArrayList and HashMap, they all need to take N steps where N is the number of the elements.

So in my opinion, would it be better that the comparison is between *HashSet* and *ArrayList*? And analyse the performance including the Add, Update, Delete and Find. Smile

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bike. Then I realized that The Lord doesn't work that way, so I stole one and asked him to forgive me.
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作者 Re:太多只会SSH的白痴了.....国内培养出那么多代码民工何用？！ [Re:cxp108]
wes109

以梦为马

CJSDN高级会员


发贴: 857
于 2010-07-08 19:02 user profilesend a private message to usersearch all posts byselect and copy to clipboard. ie only, sorry for netscape users:-)add this post to my favorite list
cxp108 wrote:
我不知道你的意思是我的问题太基本而无聊？还是我没事找事问这些？
不管我觉得数据结构是非常基本的，只要写过稍微复杂一点的程序就会用到
集合的选择问题，保存对象的引用并在适当的时候遍历这些对象，这是我们
很常见的程序要求，连这个集合都不会选那真的很杯具.....

我发的这帖子的本意是有一大部分J2EE的程序员只知道SSH怎么配置，然后整天
写增删改查不思进取，人都变傻掉了。即使是他们理解的SSH也是很粗浅的，人
云亦云，流行就用，最明显的一个现象是很多人都把Spring 做数据库事务管理工
具用，其他用途统统不知，并不知道为什么用Spring，用Spring可以带来什么好处。

更有甚者离开SSH或J2EE容器就不会写代码的。


其实你的问题不在这里。

你的问题是：
需要价格相对便宜的人来干活，并且要把活干好，多快好省的建设社会主义

我给你出个主意：
1、招一批这样的人进来，分两拨，然后找2个水平你觉得过得去的当领导
2、体力活就让他们干，把框架搭好，模板建好，还要有好的例子，让他们轻松copy
3、2个领导负责干动脑子的活，提供咨询，监督执行

又省钱，又出活，多好


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作者 Re:太多只会SSH的白痴了.....国内培养出那么多代码民工何用？！ [Re:cxp108]
ditty

负资产小资

CJSDN高级会员


发贴: 1038
于 2010-07-09 11:07 user profilesend a private message to usersend email to dittysearch all posts byselect and copy to clipboard. ie only, sorry for netscape users:-)add this post to my favorite list
cxp108 wrote:
不是Shell......Spring Structs Hibernate SSH

原来是我out了。。。

这3个框架目前确实很流行，这些框架的主旨也是在于推进软件的产业化发展，而产业化的必然就是扼杀创造力->培训熟练工人，这也是没办法的事情。

简历上的精通-熟悉-了解，基本都要看的淡一些。真要是做到精通你所谓的SSH，恐怕不是几K的月薪可以搞定的了，呵呵。Big Smile

内忧外患的时代，洗心革面，阿咪豆腐~
• 一个关于ByteBuffer.array()的问题(结贴)
作者 Re:太多只会SSH的白痴了.....国内培养出那么多代码民工何用？！ [Re:cxp108]
jameszhang



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发贴: 1594
于 2010-07-10 08:49 user profilesend a private message to usersearch all posts byselect and copy to clipboard. ie only, sorry for netscape users:-)add this post to my favorite list
如果我招人，我不会在乎他知道多少前沿技术，我第一在乎他领悟或学习能力,第二在乎他对工作的责任感.....

"First they ignore u, then they laugh at u, then they fight u, then u will win

Mahatma Gandhi"

• 一个关于ByteBuffer.array()的问题(结贴)
作者 Re:太多只会SSH的白痴了.....国内培养出那么多代码民工何用？！ [Re:cxp108]
wes109

以梦为马

CJSDN高级会员


发贴: 857
于 2010-07-11 15:58 user profilesend a private message to usersearch all posts byselect and copy to clipboard. ie only, sorry for netscape users:-)add this post to my favorite list
楼上正解，支持一下


• Android M
作者 Re:太多只会SSH的白痴了.....国内培养出那么多代码民工何用？！ [Re:jameszhang]
nothing

天外飞仙.....

CJSDN高级会员


发贴: 1636
于 2010-07-12 04:46 user profilesend a private message to usersearch all posts byselect and copy to clipboard. ie only, sorry for netscape users:-)add this post to my favorite list
jameszhang wrote:
如果我招人，我不会在乎他知道多少前沿技术，
我第一在乎他领悟或学习能力,第二在乎他对工作的责任感.....


这两个，我都有。


躲得过的怪物，躲不过的刺激

• 一个关于ByteBuffer.array()的问题(结贴)
作者 Re:太多只会SSH的白痴了.....国内培养出那么多代码民工何用？！ [Re:cxp108]
Jcat

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于 2010-09-09 10:27 user profilesend a private message to usersend email to Jcatsearch all posts byselect and copy to clipboard. ie only, sorry for netscape users:-)add this post to my favorite list
国内的开发，就应该作为职高来培养

咱国也就是应用各种框架、包包，搜索 + Copy/Paste 就可以了。

编程，游泳，睡觉－－SleepingCat
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作者 Re:太多只会SSH的白痴了.....国内培养出那么多代码民工何用？！ [Re:Jcat]
YuLimin

简单就是美

版主


发贴: 866
于 2010-09-14 17:59 user profilesend a private message to usersearch all posts byselect and copy to clipboard. ie only, sorry for netscape users:-)add this post to my favorite list
感叹。。。

我认为关键的问题不在于他们懂还是不懂，关键在于他们是否掌握如何分析与思考问题的能力，二是否有“钻”进去的学习动力？其他的能力可以顺利通过以上两点而达成。

　当兵不后悔！后悔不当兵！　
超越黎明时空，追逐时代潮流！
人，是要靠自己的！简单就是美！
我的Java：http://www.Java2Class.net
我的Blog：http://YuLimin.ItEye.com
• 一个初学java的迷茫者
作者 Re:太多只会SSH的白痴了.....国内培养出那么多代码民工何用？！ [Re:cxp108]
scottding

十三部落酋长

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于 2010-10-16 21:33 user profilesend a private message to usersend email to scottdingsearch all posts byselect and copy to clipboard. ie only, sorry for netscape users:-)add this post to my favorite list
cxp108 wrote:
面试的人清一色写SSH，但全部TMD连容器都不会选....我现在才知道3年经验的
人，不知道什么时候用HashMap什么时候用ArrayList的多得去了...


不懂这个，也可以拿３０k

飘过～～～ 

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